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147554-carbine-people-are-quitting-your-game-again-please-just-merge-all-the-region-servers
Content ---- ---- Actually to be honest even in some other mmorpgs pvp servers are quite the ghost towns or lowest population except in WoW. Beating up players while questing or stealing nodes is never fun and always leads to negative conflict / results to leaving the server. Not sure why players like pvp servers in the first place..you've got to have some strong will to tolerate that pressure. I would of played Archeage more if they haven't put that concept in. They should just create pvp comabt zones where players wishes to participate in world pvp just to gain a buff for their faction like they did in WoW. | |} ---- 1 - It is a holiday weekend. People are not always online as much because Turkey Day today. Maybe you should take a break from the game for a day or two and enjoy one of the many other games on the market (Star Wars: Battlefront, Fallout 4, many others) for a few days. 2 - PvP servers are less populated due to the toxic cupcakes that inhabit the WildStar PvP community. This is not something Carbine can 'fix' easily. Go ask Riot how that works in LoL. 3 - Turbotailz86 already said it best. When the focus of PvP servers is not to PvP against equally-leveled opponents but to one-shot lowbies, then you will find they are far less populated as a result of those decisions. I do wish they could do something where max-levels can only attack each other and lower-levels can attack those within ~3 levels of their own level. But this may be far more work for far less benefit when they could dedicate those resources to bug fixes & new content instead. Edited November 26, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- ---- Sometimes people are toxic cupcakes without realizing it Then they talk about 'empty servers' instead of realizing their overt toxicity is why people are avoiding them and not responding or grouping with them. Would love for Carbine to implement an 'ignored by' counter that simply shows the number of people that have you on /ignore. Would be a great way for people like the OP to see at a glance that their behavior has consequences. Edited November 26, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Really and why did u talk about making char on Jabbit with charlie today lol... This used to be packed 2 weeks ago, look at it now.. Took it yesterday night prime time for EU | |} ---- ---- I think it's a good concept especially if the players sees how many have the player on ignored. Of course it will be unfortunate for that player and less likely to be invited. @ others talking about server being dead The game seems less populated depending on the time, but that's probably due to bad rep from last year and not much videos about it. They haven't produce much advertisement for it yet compared to last year during the hype. Edited November 26, 2015 by Turbotailz86 | |} ---- ---- The fact that u have seen it worst then it is now does not mean its not dead... ask around where did Spanishpvp guys go ??? they where in every single bg that i ever joined with my 4 chars, now i see few running around. RiotXIII my guild was full of pvp players 25+ online at same time , now have 5-6 actives and none do pvp. I can count shi t tons of other guilds that merged or disbanded cuz of low pop... It was to be expected that playerbase would go down , but they just relaunched game without adding anything new.. Returning players got to max lvl then 80% of them quitted, cuz there is nothing new to do, and current content is bugged... | |} ---- ---- Was never fond of that feature when WoW implemented that in. I think they're the only game that follows it besides FFXIV. Not sure if you want this game to follow that concept if it goes towards a negative way. It might be 2015, but it seem things haven't changed since much for mmorpg 2008. | |} ---- Why dont they merge them then.,, i just hate when we dont get any info about what they are doing or planning, how hard it is to make weekly posts to show ppl u care. Im not only one who thinks that this relaunch is just cash grab. Like i said in one of my posts there is so much content wasted sitting not getting used... Same for all 50 endgame zones, how cool would be to world pvp while doing some endgame grind or quests or whatever. But no lets have 50 zone just sit there for no reason | |} ---- ---- No holidays on nexus. People on Nexus also didn't play fallout 4, battlefront, or bns beta. People are actually dying from the strain running rampant irl. This is why you haven't heard anything about it... Carbine is working with the caretaker and the US military to devise a strategy against the strain invasion as we speak, do not leave your server unattended. I repeat do not leave your server. This is actually bad folks, stop making the OMG DOOMED threads... this is remarkably similiar to the phenomenon known as "white flight"... enough people knee jerking and it actually WILL BE A DEAD SERVER | |} ---- Your pictures should be linked rather than embedded for the benefit of those who are on mobile devices. This is off-topic, but any guild or members of a guild called 'REKT' are people that I want to have on /ignore or /rival as long as possible. It is too bad I can't do so since you're on EU. One less reason to take what you say any bit seriously. ;) Edited November 26, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- Thank You for ur post, very helpfull | |} ---- ---- 'your' not 'ur' 'helpful' not 'helpfull' You took the time to make that sarcastic post but haven't edited your previous post to do links intead of embeds. Perhaps we need to consider the 'PvP server' experiment to be a failure and just ditch it. Later on it can be reimplemented in a way where only max-level players are auto-flagged for PvP no matter what (even in cities). They could do something with it but at this point it may be better for them if they were permitted to just merge the current 'megaservers' into one global server and be done with it. There is one primary issue with merging EU servers with NA ones and that is the language barriers. People speaking French, German, Russian, and dozens of other languages in public chats would upset a lot of sour cupcakes. So we'd need language-specific channels ahead of time before that became an issue. For now, merging PvP servers and PvE servers into one may be a good intermediate solution to the perceived lack of population. Edited November 26, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- Sorry, just curious--how are you deciding how many players this game has? I haven't seen any numbers in ages. | |} ---- They're making assertions and assumptions based on their perceived lack of a playerbase based on their personal limited experiences with how many players are online at specific times. It would've been smart for Carbine to have done the F2P relaunch around Jan/Feb of next year after this holiday rush so they wouldn't be competing head to head with some of the biggest and most anticipated releases in the past decade (Star Wars: Battlefront and Fallout 4). How many millions of copies did Fallout 4 sell? Enough to have ALL the monies for the forseeable future. O_O | |} ---- Because the current model of raiding is working so well. /sarcasm. Things have changed a ton since 2008. WoW's raid finder changed things for one thing. The hardcore raider demographics is practically non existent in this era as proven by Wildstar's initial failure when they tried to target them. Let the casuals click a button and do their raids, more people will play, and Carbine/NC Soft will make more money, simple as that. I actually never did a raid in WoW until the raid finder. I, like a lot of people, just don't have the time to commit to a guild and spend hours a week doing that sort of thing. Just like how PVP servers are obsolete now, the old method of grouping up with 40 or 20 people to do a raid is obsolete for the majority of today's market. People want to experience things faster and easier, that's why mobile gaming is on the rise. | |} ---- ---- Since we're a little off topic already, sorry but no. When Carbine was setting up the forums we pushed hard for the ability to post screenshots, and until they change the forum rules, there's nothing wrong with a post with 2 screenshots. How you choose to view forums is on you, not on the poster. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- That would only be "cool" for people on a PvP server. The vast majority of folk on the PvE servers don't want world PvP. That's why they won't merge them all. If they did it would be a PvE server and the PvP lot would whine. Edited November 27, 2015 by Gomly | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Unless you are lvling the queues should be easy to find ( people rarely queue for adventures now however as it was removed from the attunement requirement). If you are queueing for veteran expeditions then its your own damn fault tbh, those are soloable and only become harder if u try to get more people. Warplots are not done because you need 30 people to do it and it turns into a zerg (imagine WvW but more confined with many more bugs... as noone plays it). Even though its season 2 atm only the hardcore arena plays actually do arenas atm, so most people wait for the 3v3 contracts unfortunately Last weekend i queued as dps only on my ilvl 60 something esper and found groups within minutes Edited November 27, 2015 by Genoshock | |} ---- The current model of raiding does seem to be working well. If you are attributing the population problems that resulted in F2P to the raid model, I think it's more complex than that, and one can assume just about any feature he or she doesn't like is responsible. For you, it's the raids (which, I gather, you haven't seen so it's really hard to judge). For someone else, it might be adventures, leveling, or whatever. But as far as I can tell, the raids are working well- people are doing them, they are having fun, and they are hooking people for long periods of time. It may be a smaller segment of the population, but it's content that has tons of hours played on it. I don't see casual raids causing people to stick around much longer, because after they are cleared a few times, people really won't have much reason to bother with them. At least the current raids keep people engaged for months at a time. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Yeah the 3 people who like open world PVP would whine, what a tragedy. :rolleyes: | |} ---- ---- You'd actually be surprised how many people enjoy open world pvp. Sure it's a minority compared to the pve population, but it still happens. See, if this was the other way round and pvp'ers were being so mean about pve people and wanting to completely shut down their part of the game, you'd scream bloody murder. But we're used to it I guess. Everyone thinks we are horrible people :/ | |} ---- Agreed. I like OPvP. I just wish this game handled it better. I think my absolute favorite OPvP experiences came in Warhammer Online. Did you ever play that? :) Taking over forts, and slowly pushing towards the other faction's city and invading it. Getting loot when the other players were defeated. Getting nothing if you out-leveled them :P I really miss that game :( | |} ---- ---- I loved warhammer. And they had the chicken thing for ganking (they should implement that for here, turn the person into a jabbit :D) I still enjoy going to the Thayd at least once a week now. :) | |} ---- ---- ---- When content is made trivial, it loses meaning and devalues the experience. That in turn leads to significantly higher churn. The fall of WoW and the rise of FFXIV show that you are incorrect in thinking the 'hardcore raider' demographic doesn't exist. It does exist and is at least 4+ million strong; they seem to like a well-made fantasy subscription-only game moreso than WildStar. I was hoping not to need to put an ad blocking addon just to ignore embedded screenshots. I guess emptier forums will be emptier then. Enjoy the echo chamber. Free transfers to and from PvP servers will not solve the issue. The PvP servers are full of elitist toxic cupcakes (NSFW Language). There is nothing that Carbine, NcSoft, or any other publisher/dev that can reasonably solve this issue without completely removing the open PvP aspect altogether. I always discourage new players from rolling on a PvP server even if they like PvP. With cross-realm queues for Arena/BG stuff there is zero need for the 'World PvP' aka 'gankfest'. The only reason that many people seem to like 'World PvP' is so they can ride through and one-shot lowbies for laughs. They have so much salt that they feel the need to seed the entire server with it. As long as the game design permits griefing on PvP servers, you will not find much of a population there. They don't want to admit it but many of the people posting about low population are the same sour cupcakes that grief lowbies on PvP servers then wonder why their servers are empty. They don't care about fairness in structured or world PvP. They only care about obtaining a significant gear/stat advantage over someone else and stomping them down to raise their epeen to make up for their tiny rpeen. Personally, I absolutely despise the MOBA-RTS subgenre because of the promotion that these epeen-cupcakes throw around and get rewarded with despite their obscenely bad toxicity towards their own teammates and other players. It is so commonplace that if they really were to outright ban those players then the 'scene' would vanish with them. People avoid the queues the same reason that they do in every MMO: player quality. If you can at least talk to a person and get someone from your server, then the possibility of a sour cupcake is significantly reduced. If you take a higher risk and just solo queue then you are asking for pain and frustration. The solo queues and queues in general are the ones that tend to be filled with anti-social derps that don't know how to MMO. I never get people who join a queue but don't want to interact with others. Why don't they just form their own group? Oh right, because nobody wants to invite the sour cupcakes to their group. So the queue ends up being a breeding ground for the viral toxicity of whatever MMO you're playing. Because open world PvPers act like horrible people; overwhelmingly so. I guarantee that I can go on YouTube and search for 'PvP videos' to get tens of thousands of results that are nothing but 'gank' videos from stealth classes in whatever MMO has them. Then several more thousand results of obviously stacked odds or obvious hackers showing their epeen and still being terrible (alongside terrible taste in music). Do you know why so few people even bother to go anywhere near the PvP section of these very forums? Toxicity. And when it bleeds over into General Discussion the majority of responses tend to be 'bugger off and take that salt back to the PvP section'. The main reason that many people roll on PvP servers are so that they can show their epeen by one-shotting lowbies on a Stalker or w/e. That's pretty much it. If the majority of WildStar's playerbase opts out of this then it is the fault of the cancerous PvP server players, not the rest of the WildStar playerbase. The main way to treat cancer is to flood it with targeted radiation, but sometimes if it infests too much territory you need to just cut it all out and triage the remainder. So I'd say the 'solution' Carbine might come up with is to just nuke the PvP servers from orbit with a targeted swarm of Ion Cannon Fire from the Dominion Fleet and ignore the whiners as they force PvE server rules to everyone. However, this solution would upset those who enjoy being on a PvP server. In this case, it may be better to just not even worry about PvP population and do more from the player/community side to counteract the massive amounts of toxicity present on such servers. Do you or anyone else defending PvP servers want a quick test? Make a completely fresh f2p account and make a character that jumps straight to the game and skips the tutorial area. Join your server's LFG channel equivalent and just sit there and log all the chat for a few hours at both off-time and prime-time. Now do the same on a PvE server. That should give you all the information you need. EDIT: Real Life Examples of Toxic Terrible People: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HG2MYX4N4s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_L53ebAsSk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SLDgPbjp0M<---this was the first big media blitz about harassment in gaming; and it is NOT uncommon now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Ii-5KknyY<---more Cross Assault stuff This is why I do all my holiday shopping online. Better deals and avoid the rabid animalistic sour cupcakes. ;) I could link every single word in this post to an example of toxic behavior directly related to PvP. Could you do the same for raiders or PvE players? ;) Edited November 28, 2015 by FantasticCupcake | |} ---- I would love it if they implemented that =) I've been playing on the dark side this weekend, as aurin. And I was actually surprised to see dominions attacking people in Thayd every now and then... promising =) I have never seen any exile in illium though... don't know if they are scared or something =( | |} ---- some guy made a youtube about it so it must be true :wacko: sure the hardcore demographic exists but it is tiny and they are raiding mythic in warcraft FFXIV has a LFR type system, Like WoW and unlike Wildstar, everyone gets to do the content at a difficulty level which suits them. Raids, Rewards and character progression for everyone so I'm not sure what your point was but I am pretty sure you missed it. There is no proof or substance to the claim that easier content leads to higher churn, there is however, evidence from many MMO's that people just pack up and leave if the content is too difficult. | |} ---- ---- Wow, so much discriminating right now. I have to go with Sylqt now and say "what the hell is your problem"? 1. "Do you know why so few people even bother to go anywhere near the PvP section of these very forums? Toxicity." Right now you're being far MORE toxic than anything that I've seen on a PvP server. 2. "The main reason that many people roll on PvP servers are so that they can show their epeen by one-shotting lowbies on a Stalker or w/e" completely not because THIS IS A TWO FACTION GAME WHERE FOR SOME REASON YOU CAN'T ATTACK EACH OTHER? It makes NO SENSE to be on a PVE server with this kind of story setting at all. All of my best experiences come from PvP servers. Players helping each other, players being cautious of each other and selecting themselves not to attack, rather than being forced by yellow. 3. "In this case, it may be better to just not even worry about PvP population" I said this last December and I'm going to say this again - let your PvP servers die and your game will follow. More and more new players will roll a dead server, see the population, leave, roll a dead server, see the population, leave. More and more said players will leave videos and pictures of said emptyness online. Wildstar will once again get the name of a dead game. Go ahead, try me. I was right once before. 4. "Join your server's LFG channel equivalent and just sit there and log all the chat for a few hours at both off-time and prime-time. Now do the same on a PvE server. That should give you all the information you need." Go on. Come to Luminai and do this and then compare it to Jabbit. Jabbit is FAR more toxic. Mostly because Jabbit has far more people. So stop discriminating. Edited November 28, 2015 by mirta000 | |} ---- ---- A thousand times this! Gurllll lemme pizza highfive you! <3 | |} ---- ---- Well we raid 2 nights a week, but... we're having the opposite problem - too many people! | |} ---- I dont know if you've been around since launch but carbine made one almost fatal mistake: they went for the 'hardcore' rading market. Carbine decided to go for the Vanilla Word of Warcraft experience because basically you get a lot of nostalgists and they listened to it. The one imfamous trailer that probably put off a lot of people was by the departed Stephen Frost, who now works for Blizzard, where he repeated Hardcore! People often criticise Blizzard for they nerfs as they call it but they dont think why they did it. Look at attunemtns that carbine introdiced. The playerbase at large didn';t like them so tney nefed them. The first raid in Wildstar was 40 man, 'cause molten core was epic, right... As predicted people battled with the roster boss and it was made 20 man. I dont know if yove actually plated WoW or if you just bash it because it's the edgy thing to do but you're just wrong in what you say. The reality is that raiding is a minority 'sport' but it sucks a huge amount of developer time. To make a bisiness case for raiding is impossible, why would you spend so much effort on so few players. You're left with the choice to either drop raidng content or find ways to get more people into it. Now this is where your ingorance reaches it's peak. Personally I do find four difficuilties for a raid too much but let's move past that. Blizzard decided to make a story mode colloquially called LFR (looking for raid). It's bascially a version of the 'main raids' with reduced or removed mechanics. It suits it's purpose and offers inferiour rewards to the other modes. The real rading is in the normal and heroic modes that introdiuce more mechaincs and have difficulty scaled; player scalling allows 10-30 to take part. The true hardcore has even more mechanics and has a fixed size of 20 players. This mode is not like LFR and to claim it is, is either lies or just plan stupidity. You metioned FF14 and, whether players like it or not, it's not really a raiding game. They had a raid in 2.x but it was too diffucullt to all but the dedicated raiders and they nerfed it to open up participation and even then it was still done by a small amount of people. In their first expansion they made a story mode and a savage mode because they knew that making raids for a small proportion of the player base was silly. 'Hardcore' failed for Wildstar and now they have hit the emegency button and went free to play. Money isnt as regular as it's always been so you can't waste it on content that only a small fraction of the playerbase enjoy - 'hardcore' raiding. There are options: cut raiding altogether; reduce the frequesncy or new raids, reduce the number of bosses etc; or open up raiding to more people. For Blizzard and SE they decided to go with multiple diffucilties. It's not the mechanics that suck the development time it's the art assets and enviroment and in a mutiple diffucllty raid they can be reused. For the multiple diffuclties you tune or remove mechanics and then offer lower or different rewards - even just cosmetic for the lower difficulty. This incentivises people to run it. The hardcore can still have their challenging content and the casual playebase - the vast majoroty - can experiece the story so the accountants are happy. You can throw your dummy out of the pram as much as you like but if you care then you'd want multiple diffucilties to enable the game and raiding to stay afloat. Hardcore just doesn't play the bills; it didn't last time and it still wont. | |} ---- Wait.. you have pizza? Gimme! | |} ---- ---- I'll not watch this video as I know where it's going to lead to. It's no surpise that WoW is losing players. Even ignoring the distaer that was their latest expansion and how Blizzard managed to f up that. WoW is 11 yeras old that's incredible for a MMO. The population has stablised to 5.4 million and it's likely to remain roughly at that, probably slowly decreasing as time goes on but not dramatically. We wont hear anymore nunbers because it's not as sexy on a shareholders report as it once was. It's still the number one subscrition MMO and will be for a long time. I'm a massive fan of FF14 and have been subscribed since 2.0 launch and still play it most days. It has some fantastic story telling. I'm assuming this youtuber and you have done what most people do and mix up registered accounts and subscibers. When SE brag about FF14 they have NEVER given any subscription numbers only registered accounts. The only solid numbers we've had was from Yoshi-P that they have 500k concurrent players each day so even if we have a quarter of the players playing each day that's 2 million subs, probably optimstic. The game aslo launched in china so that'll giver a huge boost for now until it stablises. As for raiding I'm not sure where you get that impression as what we've been told is the opposite. The producer of the game, Yoshi-P, gives live letters and the occasional interview to fan sites and told us that the participation rates for savage, their hardcore raid, are just too low and they will take action. The main reason for the story mode is to open up content and that's been a relatively good success but the hardcore crowd, your crowd, just isn't big enough; this will likely have implications for future savage versions, likely nerfed diffcuilty. I've said this above too, the majority dont raid even the nerfed diffculties. | |} ---- ---- I do too. I really do, it would improve the game heaps if they did balance like this. However I don't think there is enough of a dev team to do this on wildstar. | |} ---- ---- ---- Well yes, what else did you think Hugs were made off? : O | |} ----